Oil filter and supply lines color

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Mark Strang
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Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Mark Strang » Mon May 18, 2020 3:46 pm

I'm now starting to build up exterior engine items for TC7801 in anticipation of firing it up although the tub and body parts are not done. I'm mainly concerned to make sure the engine runs. In the process, since the car came in pieces, I want to know what colors the oil filter lines are painted including the castings for the lines. I think the filter container is aluminum in color but I don't know the color of the straps that hold the filter in place. Should the filter attachment straps be engine color, should the oil lines be engine color, etc. It seems as if each car I look at has a different color combination. Some cars I've seen have polished copper supply lines while some are black and others are engine color. It's a real variety but certainly there is a proper color combination. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, Mark

Tom Lange, MGT Repair
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Tom Lange, MGT Repair » Mon May 18, 2020 5:07 pm

First, the original oil filter on a TC was a throw-away metal can, and the cans I have are all aftermarket cans, painted grey or orange. I don't know if a MOWOG replacement filter came in a color, off the shelf. I doubt it was engine color. If your can is aluminum, it is probably a Moss or similar 2-piece filter can, and not original.

My assumption is that the engine was painted after it was entirely assembled, so everything would have been painted engine color. Much of this is owner preference; for instance, the timing cover, sump and bell housing were originally painted engine color, but many people like they way the natural aluminum looks without paint. The same is true of the oil lines - they were probably painted with the rest of the engine, but people like the way they look au natiurel.

Tom Lange
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Tom Wilson
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Tom Wilson » Mon May 18, 2020 5:37 pm

Rather than write a treatise, here are three photos of a TC XPAG engine and gearbox taken at MG Abingdon in early 1947. Other factory photos I have of engines in the car show painting done the same way, as do photos I have of XPAGs for the YA.

Engines were delivered to MG fully painted with gearboxes attached by Morris Engines Branch. I think painting happened after gearboxes went on. Painting was quite variable, oftentimes sloppy according to the photos I have. I've seen gearboxes in black, red, and the green-gray, though most seem to have been red.

For the detail minded, look at the radiator hose clamps. Engines Branch used wire clamps where they installed them; MG used Jubilee band clamps on the other locations.

MG attached the carbs and air filter, dynamo, and gearbox remote at the second station of the chassis production line. The engine was then dropped onto the chassis.

Tom Wilson
. . . your resident TC originality historian . . .
Attachments
XPAG TC Engine 31 1947.jpg
XPAG TC Engine 2 1947.jpg
XPAG TC Engine 1 1947.jpg

Tom Lange, MGT Repair
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Tom Lange, MGT Repair » Tue May 19, 2020 4:15 am

I'm mighty surprised to see the sump and bell housing not painted! I thought for sure that they were painted with the rest of the engine. Could TD parts be differently handled? I know I have seen "virgin" TD engines with the remains of red paint in both those locations.

Sorry for providing incorrect information above; thanks for correcting it, Tom

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Steve Simmons » Tue May 19, 2020 8:28 am

I'm no expert on TD, but I do think that they did things a little different, to speed up the line. Meaning not quite as careful with paint and such things. I've pulled a few original MGBs apart and there is paint overspray on everything. Coming off the line, as far as details go, the farther back in history you go, the nicer things seemed to be.

I take some liberties on my car. Bare sump and timing cover, polished copper lines and a brighter red paint. I also paint my engine plate black, because I don't like the bright red plate on a bright red car. Black intake manifold also.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
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Duncan M
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Duncan M » Tue May 19, 2020 2:03 pm

That same third pic is on page 109 of "The Immortal T Series" by Chris Harvey. Toms provided pic is much clearer. When expanded it appears the spark plug wires are of the type with a plain black rubber outer covering. Safety wire on the oil pump outlet line fitting, etc.

Mark Strang
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Mark Strang » Wed May 20, 2020 5:31 am

Thank everyone for the great information. The photos sure clarify a lot of originality issues regarding what was painted. It makes sense that the engine was painted after everything was installed similar to the chassis painting process. Now it is just a question as to how much bling folks want to add in terms of polished parts.
Interesting note on the clamps. I've been dinged on the clamps by various judges who seem to know it all in spite of my clamps being band or Julbilee depending on location.
It's very frustrating when seeing T series cars being shown and judged at a high level meet that have a lot of details that are not correct; on the engine in particular. They are usually appealing with shinny parts and grab everyone's attention including the judges but are not correct and still win awards. An original engine does not look terribly attractive. A glamorous looking engine compartment seems to imply that a higher level of restoration was performed when that is usually not the case. Originality should rule for judging. Now, for personal pleasure and satisfaction and not for show, shinny is nice. I like shinny and if the car is not going to be seriously judged, I throw in bit of shine. Friends and other car folks don't know the difference and it does look better.
Thanks for the information and help.

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bloodysalmon
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by bloodysalmon » Wed May 20, 2020 12:30 pm

as long as there are no chromed wheels, no chromed bumpers and no chromed rocker covers!
Chris Blood
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Tom Wilson
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Tom Wilson » Wed May 20, 2020 4:51 pm

Right Chris, except for the very early TCs. The first 150-200 TCs had chrome rocker covers and silver painted radiator header tanks. I’ve documented this to TC432

Duncan M
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Duncan M » Wed May 20, 2020 5:21 pm

Chris, don't forget that the factory installed chromed bumpers on 494 TC EXU's.

Ray White
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Ray White » Thu May 21, 2020 12:08 am

Don't you like chrome wheels on a TC then Chris? :lol:

Tom Lange, MGT Repair
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Tom Lange, MGT Repair » Thu May 21, 2020 4:12 am

Occam's razor suggests that the entire engine and ancillaries would have been entirely painted. We all know about the use of prototype or sample images for factory press materials; the factory Mark II TD sales brochure shows bucket seats and brake air scoops, for instance. Is it possible that this TC engine photo is not typical of installed engines? Are there corroborative photos out there of other TC engines or factory photos of TCs that show, for instance, the sump, to confirm how things were painted?

I know that habit is habit, and TD engines were painted differently.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

Tom Wilson
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Tom Wilson » Thu May 21, 2020 7:45 am

Tom, as I noted in my earlier post, all the factory photos I have showing engines in the TC era generally show the same painting treatment of engines. I’m sure there was variation in it, as it likely was a process without stringent standards. So I think these photos are very typical of engines installed on a day to day basis.

Cars prepared for auto shows (MG seems to have participated in two or three per year) often had special paint treatment. EMO949 and NEC300, both Sequoia Cream, had chassis, brake drums, and attachments painted the same color. Another TC, red, had the same treatment.

timberstone
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by timberstone » Thu May 21, 2020 9:38 am

"I've been dinged on the clamps by various judges who seem to know it all in spite of my clamps
being band or Julbilee depending on location."

Precisely why, after 40 + years, I do not "compete" in concourse anymore.
The greatest award was from grandson 5 years old -- "Grandfather, that sure is cool!"

Ray White
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Ray White » Thu May 21, 2020 10:05 am

Personally, I don't feel the need to seek approval for my work.

I let others compete for the Brownie points.

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Steve Simmons » Thu May 21, 2020 10:30 am

I have several awards for car shows that I've participated in the past. They are all in a plastic box in my attic. I've only entered those things in the past in order to support the organizers. I have no interest in showing off or collecting trophies. I have no problem with those who do, but it just isn't my cup of tea. I prefer collecting insects and bugs while I drive.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
http://www.mgnuts.com

Duncan M
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Duncan M » Thu May 21, 2020 1:34 pm

I've long suspected that the special spark plug wire covering that certain people claim was original on TC's was nonsense.

Norman Tuck
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Norman Tuck » Fri May 22, 2020 3:55 pm

I am curious. How did the factory attach hoists or dollies to the engine units to move them around and lower them into the cars?

Tom Wilson
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Tom Wilson » Fri May 22, 2020 4:14 pm

Yes

Mark Strang
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Re: Oil filter and supply lines color

Post by Mark Strang » Fri May 22, 2020 6:08 pm

The enjoyment of building a car as it supposedly came form the factory is great satisfaction for me. The research is fun. It's all about the journey. The routine things like dealing in old grease, body work and painting, etc., that take a ton of time are not fun but a necessary part of the overall finished product. I have both driver and show cars. All of them get driven a lot. The drivers are not close to original but I don't really care. Showing cars of any type is just a good opportunity to meet new friends and talk cars with old acquaintances. If I get an award, that is fine, but not the goal. I've seen a lot of winning cars in a concours event that are not even close to correct. Popular choice events are a laugh. Bling is called for in these shows. Fun to see what some people do to their cars and they enjoy doing it. Good for them. To each his own. It's their pride and joy.

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