30 mph light

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Ray White
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30 mph light

Post by Ray White » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:30 pm

I am having my instruments restored and the question of the 30 mph light has come up. Regardless of whether my speedometer has it or not I am trying to ascertain if the cars exported to Australia had this feature - especially the later cars. Mine is TC 10030; quite a late one and as the original dashboard was missing by the time it had got to me I am left guessing as to the facts. I don't have a dash light fitting and if there never was such a warning light in the first place it would save me a lot of searching for one.

I have contacted an MG car club in Australia but I have yet to hear from them.
Does anyone here know the answer?

Rickwilson
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Rickwilson » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:08 pm

Ray,
The TC Restoration Guide By Malcolm Green says that the 30mph light was only fitted to home market cars.

Rick Wilson

frenchblatter
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by frenchblatter » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:02 am

And I believe the late cars didn't have them fitted but two map lights. (I've been informed so don't shoot me if I'm wrong)
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jddevel
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by jddevel » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:51 am

According to the wiring giagrams in W.E.Blowers manual no TC had a 30mph light certainly after chassis number 3414. They appear to have ended with the TB although as reference is only made to the diagram I have being after 3414 and US export models it may be the case that it did exist upto and including 3413. My TC an all original from `47 hasn`t got one but it`s ex US

jddevel
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by jddevel » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:00 am

Just checked another set of manuals and it does show a wiring supply to a TC speedometer but makes no reference to a chassis number. Personally I`d believe Blowers diagram and believe it wasn`t in your particular car being a later chassis number.

Ray White
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Ray White » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:40 am

That is a relief! At least I can tell my instruments restorer to ignore such a device if there is one fitted to my speedo.

Thanks to you guys for such a quick and useful response.

Very impressed!

Cheers, Ray.

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bloodysalmon
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by bloodysalmon » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:30 am

Hi Ray, why would you put one of these in even it was originally there or not? They serve no reasonable purpose then nor today! :? Especially when you have said you dont want a concours with all its original stuff ... knowing youre fitting Alfins, 5-speedbox etc which wasnt right!
Chris Blood
TC1472,TC2686,TC4245,D-type D0407

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Steve Simmons
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Steve Simmons » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:53 am

I believe 30 MPH lamps were fitted to all home market cars. TC8975 has one installed. A map light is no more useful, since it's behind the steering wheel on the driver's side, which is awkward and perhaps even dangerous to use while driving. The passenger side lamp is easier to use for both driver and passenger. The 30 MPH lamp can be re-purposed as a turn indicator, oil pressure warning, temperature warning, etc. Mine is simply set up like a map lamp so I can turn it on or off to demonstrate to curious onlookers. If nothing else, it's an interesting piece of history that is unique to the period.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
http://www.mgnuts.com

Ray White
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Ray White » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:24 am

bloodysalmon wrote:Hi Ray, why would you put one of these in even it was originally there or not? They serve no reasonable purpose then nor today! :? Especially when you have said you dont want a concours with all its original stuff ... knowing youre fitting Alfins, 5-speedbox etc which wasnt right!
John Marks (Vintage restorations) has been given the job of restoring my instruments and I think he assumed I would want it. I have now told him that I don't want it. The kind of thing that I do want is an (optional) water temperature gauge. John is building one for me - and a supercharger boost gauge - which I understand was another option. Steve Baker is supplying the blower.

Andrew Denton is building a new Ash framed body and Peter Edney (who has supplied the extractor manifold; stainless exhaust and fast road cam with uprated followers ) is converting the head to unleaded with new valves and guides and shaping it to make the most of the supercharger. The head is already "ported" from a racing history. He is also regrinding the crank and reboring the block. A liner is required in No.1 bore. I am having the quality +0.030" pistons machined to accept fully floating gudgeon pins.

There is much more I could list like new king pins and bushes and brakes with bronze master cylinder and wheel cylinders; a complete rewire and a new dashboard with a slight change to the norm but the list goes on a bit!

if I was intending the rebuild to look like a factory original car then perhaps a speed warning light may be the kind of obsolete curiosity that could possibly have a place but like you say my car is not going to be like that. It languished in Australia as a basket case since 1960 and then was recently imported and cobbled together in a truly amateurish way by the p.o.

What I hope to achieve is a car which is personal to me but is still recognisable as a TC. I am sticking with the overall gearing but having a modified (higher) first gear in the 5 speed conversion and keeping the 19" wheels and tyres which (with a VW steering box conversion) should provide some entertainment in the corners!

jddevel
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by jddevel » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:35 am

Great to hear of a car that`s going to be used and will be great fun to drive. Hope it`s not to long before the wind is in your hair.

Franz Tenbrock
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Franz Tenbrock » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:26 pm

i will use the position for a signal light, perhaps oil pressure or high beam light
i will print a new base for it wiht two led s on for map light one for the signal light
i want to have an original like car with modern parts you don t see.
;-)
Best Regards
Franz

English better every day ;-)
3D Print: CJR3 case for Lucas340, individual Titan-X spark plug holder for 30 Euros, original like case for replica speedo + tacho

Ray White
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Ray White » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:27 pm

jddevel wrote:Great to hear of a car that`s going to be used and will be great fun to drive. Hope it`s not to long before the wind is in your hair.
Thank you! I plan on taking no more than 18 months to complete the rebuild and I have a realistic approach to the cost. This is not a cheap build.

I am 64 and have spent most of my adult life restoring cars to their "original" specification. I love a good unmolested vintage or classic car and will continue to press the case for saving unrestored gems from the hands of hot rodders; indeed I have owned a very rare and largely original 1930 Austin Swallow saloon for the past 35 years which I have painstakingly rebuilt with the emphasis on preservation rather than restoration.

TC 10030 is a different matter. This is no time warp, oily rag car begging to be preserved. The car was originally exported new to Australia in 1949 and at that time was finished in clipper blue. Little is known about the early days but there is believed to be a hill climb competition element and there is some evidence that a catastrophic engine failure resulted in damage that required No.1 cylinder being linered. When I removed the head I found a solid copper cylinder head gasket.

The TC was totally dismantled in 1960 and left unrestored until it was imported a couple of years ago when it was hurriedly reassembled in order to obtain an age related number. Initial appearances seemed to suggest a running restoration would be possible but on detailed inspection some serious errors came to light.
The condition of the car was such that I had no choice but to embark on a total restoration. The good points are that being an Australian import there is very little chassis rust and the recorded of 25,000 miles could well be correct.
Last edited by Ray White on Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tom Wilson
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Tom Wilson » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:13 pm

I studied Specification 259 to research this question - what TCs had the Thirtilite. Details are below, but here is the synopsis:
All General production and Home market cars had the 30 Lite with matching Speedo.
Cars made under the EXR, EXR/K, and EXU were made with two map lights and Speedometer without the Thirtilite device. These cars were ordered from MG by Nuffield Exports, the export division of the corporation.
An easy clue: if a TC has a Made in England tag affixed to the battery box underneath the Makers Plate, the specification is no 30 Lite.
Of course in the real world of production at that time there were likely variations to this; probably not of a significant amount.

Tom Wilson
Your resident TC historian

Specification 259 information shows:
General (standard) spec is:
Instruments
5” Speedo with Thirtilite Device Jaeger
#89310 30 M.P.H. Dash Light Type DA.21 Green Glass

Export Condition No. 51 General CKD lists the same specification
EX D.A. (Drive away) which is chassis only lists no instruments
EXR/K (kilometers) Speedo with kilometers replaces MPH Speedo. Map Reading Lamp, Lucas 545138A DF41 Type DA23 replaces 30 Lite.
EXR (General export complete vehicle) lists Speedometer - Miles Jaeger S.461/M with no mention of thirtilite device. Map Reading Lamp replaces 30 Lite.
EXU is same as EXR.

timandgerda
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by timandgerda » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:47 am

Just to muddy the water - my TC number 10055, so a stable mate, has a thirtilite. However there is no way of knowing if the instrument cluster is original as lots of other parts definitely are not!

frenchblatter
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by frenchblatter » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:30 am

I have the light but it doesn't work. Something for me to sort out in the winter months.

I see the point of the thirty miles per hour light.... as you can't see the speedo clearly it may help you not go through that bloody camera on Penistone road in Sheffield it 38. :)
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Ray White
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Ray White » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:47 am

timandgerda wrote:Just to muddy the water - my TC number 10055, so a stable mate, has a thirtilite. However there is no way of knowing if the instrument cluster is original as lots of other parts definitely are not!
My original instruments seem to have survived but the dashboard itself has been replaced. Badly. Amongst the items imported from Australia with the car were two map reading lamps but no thirtilite.

I am having a new dashboard made (by Andrew Denton of MG Ash frames) and it will have a smooth birch plywood finish. Originally, of course, the dash would have been vinyl covered but I have never liked it as much as a quality veneer such as found on earlier cars. No doubt there will be criticism if I stray even further from standard but as it will be me doing the driving I reserve the right to use my imagination. 8)

Martin Johnson
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Martin Johnson » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:14 pm

Only for reference:
TC6219
No "Made in England" tag on bulkhead
Speedometer in MPH with 30 light connection post and thumb screw
30 light on dash, not working, no internals when I obtained the car, although I think I could fabricate one.
I'm interested to see what the bulb holder looks like- I'm guessing same as map light, only no twist on/off device.
Happy Motoring
Martin Johnson
Long Beach, California

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Steve Simmons
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Steve Simmons » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:22 pm

For those of you living in speed camera land, note that the 30 lamp can also be modernized by adjusting the trigger range so that it lights at the current legal speed limit instead of 30 MPH. The adjustment is made inside the speedometer.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
http://www.mgnuts.com

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jeffnewey
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by jeffnewey » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:58 pm

TC10030 would have arrived in Australia in early 1950 (not 1959 as mentioned earlier) and probably in Melbourne (I have N.S.W. records and it is not in them).
As Tom says no EXR cars coming here had the 30 light... mine is 5th. car to arrive here (TC0489) and did not have a 30 light.

Ray White
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Re: 30 mph light

Post by Ray White » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:28 am

Thank you Jeff. Why I wrote 1959 instead of 1949 for TC 10030 I have no idea but I have been back and corrected my post.

You may be interested to know that the dealers plate survives; correctly pinned to the inside surface of a vertical scuttle timber next to an original, brass MG body plate. It says: This vehicle suppled new by Peter Lloyd Pty. Ltd. 213 - 217 ELIZABETH STREET SYDNEY. NSW.

The other plate reads: The MG Car Company Ltd., Abingdon - on - Thames,
BODY TYPE E280

BODY NO. 9782 A 4012 0.
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