Loss of water?

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frenchblatter
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Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Mon May 25, 2020 11:46 am

My TC lost all it's water and got really hot, so much so that the oil pressure dropped to zero. I stopped immediatly and the car was transported home. I've got the head off and expected to see a leak from water jacket to bore (Lynne said there was white smoke coming out the back just before I stopped). However, no sign of a leak. When I spin the engine over on the starter I can hear a loud clicking sound from the rear of the engine.

Unless anyone has any better ideas I'll be dropping the sump and pulling rods in the morning.
Lynne & Norman Verona.

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by Steve Simmons » Mon May 25, 2020 12:19 pm

Yikes! I'm sorry to hear about that. I would suspect a rod bearing as well. Did a radiator hose let go? Keep us posted on what you find.
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frenchblatter
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Mon May 25, 2020 12:36 pm

No leaks that I can see. I filled it up when I got it back and not a drip underneath. I fully expected a blown HG as Lynne said it was chucking out white smoke just before I stopped. I'll drop the sump and inspect the Big End bearings in the morning. I'll spin it over on the starter before that to make sue I get some oil presssure. (I'll see it coming out the oil feed pipe to the head)
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ferricsteed
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by ferricsteed » Mon May 25, 2020 4:39 pm

White smoke may indicate you still had some coolant in the engine before you shut it down which is a good thing. Three ways to get exhaust gas into cooling system which quickly causes a loss of coolant: blown head gasket, cracked head and, unfortunately, a cracked cylinder wall. Sometimes this crack in the cylinder wall is difficult to spot. Fingernail may pick it up. I am assuming no water into the crankcase oil. You didn't necessarily state you had exhaust gas in cooling system but that is a reason for losing water relatively suddenly. You have given much advice including to me. Thank you. Cracked cylinder can be sleeved but use a good machinist. Lots can go wrong. I cannot come up with a cause for noise in the back of this engine. I am sure you know sounds of rods knocking or main bearing rumbles. Camshaft or crankshaft may be walking.
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frenchblatter
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Mon May 25, 2020 11:10 pm

Tim, no water in the oil. I'm going to drop the sump and look at the bearings this morning. I know the sound of a big end knocking but this is a click rather than a knock. I did find water in No 3 bore but that may have been because I got the head undone before all the water had drained, although thinking about it I doubt it. I'll check the face of the head and block. I expected to see clear signs of a blown HG but there aren't any. gasket surfaces are clean and unmarked.

Time will tell, I'm not rushing.

Thanks
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Duncan M
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by Duncan M » Mon May 25, 2020 11:56 pm

Norman, did you lose oil? I was always leery of those modified rear main seal kits

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SteveW
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by SteveW » Tue May 26, 2020 1:13 am

Hi Norman, sorry to hear about yout car troubles. I'me sure that you will get it back on the road in no time.

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Re: Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Tue May 26, 2020 6:10 am

Sump off, No. 4 big end cap removed, no problem, just as it was put in 6000 miles ago. I'm going to get the head skimmed and put it all back together. Just can't think what else to do/check. I'll let you know the outcome in due course.
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Ray White
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by Ray White » Tue May 26, 2020 7:39 am

Norman. Sorry to hear your news. At least your crank is O.K, I have been trying to think what the "clicking" sound was? If the engine got that hot it might have tried to seize; maybe it is a broken piston ring?

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Re: Loss of water?

Post by Steve Simmons » Tue May 26, 2020 7:42 am

Just a thought, have you checked for a seized valve?
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by EdCallo » Tue May 26, 2020 4:28 pm

Long shot, but I once had a wrist pin break in two which resulted in same symptoms. Rattle and crack in block from the broken wrist pin.

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Re: Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Wed May 27, 2020 12:31 am

It's not a siezed valve as the rockers are fine and all valves are closed. I'll check the wrist (gudgeon) pin later today. Just off to get the head skimmed although it's OK as checked with a steel rule and feller gauge. I will inspect it closely for cracks and the same with the block.

I'll get the bearing cap back on and ask Lynne to operate the starter whilst I lay underneath. May help locate the click.
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Thu May 28, 2020 8:27 pm

Seems lile it's the head. It was 0.008" out in the middle, so maybe No3 bore having water in it was the problem. I should have it running in an hour or so.
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jddevel
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by jddevel » Fri May 29, 2020 12:48 pm

Crikes did you get the head skimmed that quick!!!! Anyway hope the problem is solved.

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Re: Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Sun May 31, 2020 12:50 am

Sheffield, the place to be for engineering. I rang the engine shop, made arrangements to take it to them next morning, went to nag my daughter for an hour (she lives nearby) and collected it an hour later. It's on now and the engine is running sweetly but not had it on the road yet. Will drive it locally for a bit later today.
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Tom Lange, MGT Repair
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by Tom Lange, MGT Repair » Sun May 31, 2020 4:09 am

Norman - remember that the more frequently you re-torque the head, the less likely you are to have head gasket issues. There is a good deal of expanding, contracting and settling that takes place in the first thousand miles.

Tom Lange
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frenchblatter
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Sun May 31, 2020 10:46 am

Tom, I've retorqed after a minutes runnning and will do it again after a few humdred miles. I've gone a tad over the 50 lbs ft, probably 53/54. Shouldn't do it any harm. Everything was dry with no oil one when I pulled it down firts time. Soaked in oil second time but the faces should have been dry.

I'm going to try a 3/8" socket next time to see if I can get it on the inner nuts without having to take the rocker gear off.
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by Tom Lange, MGT Repair » Sun May 31, 2020 10:52 am

19/32"; you may have to cut it down a bit. The end nuts will need the rocker shaft clips removed.

Tom

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Re: Loss of water?

Post by Steve Simmons » Sun May 31, 2020 11:05 am

Interesting, I don't recall having any trouble getting a socket on the nuts. I use a normal short socket with a 3" extension. The extension is narrow enough to clear any obstacles and the socket is short enough to sit below them.
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Re: Loss of water?

Post by frenchblatter » Sun May 31, 2020 11:33 pm

I'm using a 1/2" drive so I'll use an adaptor on the 1/2" drive torque wrench and use a 3/8 drive extenion and socket. It's a Whitworth size, can't remember if it's 5/16" or 3/8". I have both 3/8" and 1/2" drive sockets and numerous extensions and bars.

To be honest it only takes a couple of minutes to get the 8 bolts that hold the rocker shaft to the head out. I have a small impct wrench which just zips them off. It's not very powerful so I use it t put them back and then finish with a bar. Takes longer to open the lock tabs.
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