Steering box rebuild

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dirk w dondorp
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by dirk w dondorp » Sun May 07, 2017 10:35 pm

Oh Norman, tears come to my eyes how bad they have treated you, still no reason to call them a "crap company"
In the 35 years messing about with my MG's , sure I have encountered low quality stuff, not only from Moss, but I sent them back, or modified them and had no serrious trouble.
Knowing where these products were produced I knew on beforehand they were sometimes not perfect but AFFORDABLE and I could continue driving my old girl. Buying TC parts is not as buying spares from the shelf for my Mercedes SUV, but buying stuff for long gone cars from people motivated to keep them rolling and also make a living!!
Thats all- from another, not so grumpy, old man!
Dirk

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by Steve Simmons » Sun May 07, 2017 10:55 pm

NTG is selling a different D-Lamp than Moss? I thought I remembered that they were the same part.

I haven't dealt with Moss UK for a long time, but Moss Motors in the USA has always been a real pleasure to deal with. Extremely helpful and most everyone there is a real car enthusiast who uses the parts Moss sells. More often than not there is British iron parked out front because the guys and gals who works there own and drive them! So there is a definite interest in stocking quality items. Sorry to hear Moss UK isn't as dedicated to customer service.
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frenchblatter
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by frenchblatter » Sun May 07, 2017 11:31 pm

Steve, I asked the boss of NTG and he says they get their own made. I haven't seen them so can't comment. However, all the other parts I've bought from them fave been of acceptable quality except for a handbrake cable with the wrong ferrule on the end. It ws changed for the correct item in a matter of days with no cost to me.

When I had to send a rear 1/4 panel back to Moss London because they'd supplied two of the same side (but had correct part numbers) they wanted me to pay the postage as it was now over a year since it had been supplied (it was on the initial order I put in, which was before the car had arrived here). I spoke to a manager and it was sent and the old one collected at their expense.

I must admit I should have dealt with Carl in Bradford but wasn't aware that he is theire T series expert at the time and was dealing with London.
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SteveW
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by SteveW » Mon May 08, 2017 1:05 am

XPAGnut wrote:But Steve, a quick browse on ebay revealed a NOS MC for under $35. A fellow would have to have or know or learn a few soldering skills and find just the right bean can to solder on to make a convincing final product.
I found that replacing the MC wasn't that hard. I picked up a new but well made bore from e-bay and fitted it to the original can. A quick spray with black paint and it looks as good as new. So I suppose that I have a half original part, but you would have to be an expert to spot the difference. I've also replaced the brake lines for safety reasons. My car is (or was?) a matching numbers car, but unfortunately due to the way it was stored I'm having to rebuild the body tub with new wood and quarter panels. I suppose that this means that I have a not very original, but matching numbers car (chassis, engine and most of everything else)! Some of the originality police might frown upon this, but without a new body tub, the car would never see the road again.

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frenchblatter
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by frenchblatter » Mon May 08, 2017 5:18 am

As my car had laid in a damp garage for 48 years I just ordered new wheel cylinders, master cylinders and brake lines and hoses without even looking at those fitted.

I got them from Brown ^ Gammons and the only thing "wrong" is they have modern connectors from hoses to wheel cylinders instead of the original banjo's

I have good brakes so I'm happy.
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XPAGnut
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by XPAGnut » Mon May 08, 2017 4:21 pm

Yes it is the bore or sleeve for the master cylinder that the ebay link on page 1 here goes to. Then it would need to replace the bad one, soldered in the bean can. As Steve W did. That's all there is to it, except a baffle to help contain the fluid slosh inside the can. With the bore in the can, all that holds it together is solder around each side where the sleeve goes through. A mighty simple design. Of course you could also get the sleeve linered in bronze or SS, if the insides of your bean can are still good and did not want to mess with the soldering.

I agree with Norman about Moss all being about increasing profit margin my lowering quality of product. A common enough business strategy that usually leads to insolvency.

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by Steve Simmons » Mon May 08, 2017 10:21 pm

Oh, now I get what you were looking at. I was talking about an entire MC assembly that had reached the end of its life. You won't find a new one.

Steve, the originality police who frown upon replacing bad wood are the kind that give the rest of the originality police a bad name! I'd ignore them. I'm huge into originality, but also preservation and usability. My TC is not stock, but you'd have a hard time finding anything not period correct, at least what you could see without disassembling it.
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stephen stierman
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by stephen stierman » Tue May 09, 2017 10:30 am

We are indeed lucky that we can whine about one supplier or another. Buying OEM parts on eBay has a risk factor in that they may really not be what they are represented to be and certainly retuning an item is hit or miss at best. When doing a restoration does one have to wait and wait till that odd bit shows up on eBay and than deal with the bidding process? I think not I want a reliable supplier or several that I can choose from and receive my parts from NOW. Have you priced out chrome plating on original parts lately, not to mention being are at the mercy of the plater. I have an original set of bonnet handles on my car, nicely replated by someone, but upon close inspection much of the nice detail is gone. My Moss door handles are very nice and no doubt much less costly than restoring originals and they work just fine.

These cars are not Hondas or Toyotas, how many TC's still exist and require parts? We are lucky to get most of what we get and if making a little modification in a part to make it work so be it, I can live with it. If you can't this is probably the wrong hobby for you. I had a buddy who restored big Healyes, always complaining about this repro part or that. A perfectionist to say the least, finally sold his last Healey and spends his days watching TV. No thanks.................

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dirk w dondorp
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by dirk w dondorp » Tue May 09, 2017 10:35 pm

Totally agree with you Stephen! I am happy that all these folks are still offering good, or sometimes less good products for our little fleet of still going strong admirable MG T's, and they are most certainly deserve not to be called " crap " companies !!
You are totally free to choose, use, sent back, never to buy from them again or......... make that part yourselves !
(good luck!)
All under the slogan "KEEP THEM ROLLING " and enjoy you are one of the happy few to drive one.
Dirk

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frenchblatter
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by frenchblatter » Wed May 10, 2017 7:10 am

Chaps, I'm not complaing about repro parts in general.

I spent £4500 with Moss through one of their agents. I didn't want to use the agent again (he didn't answer the phone or emails) but Moss refused to give me any discount even though they acknowledged the first purchase.

The rear lights are £128 and fall apart when you push the wires into the bullet connectors. The staff at London were not helpful at all.

Carl at Bradford is helpful and knowledgable but I didn't know that then, 2 years ago.

I went to NTG, great people, friendly and helpful and no complaint about any of the parts I bought from them.

My understanding is that Doug Pelton started "From the Frame Up" because of a similar experience with Moss in the USA. I may be wrong but think that's what I read.

I do acknowledge that Moss started the repro parts business which has enabled many T series to survive, well done for that. However, it would appear to me that now it's profit first and very little customer satisfaction.

I have no connection with any of the companies and just report my experience.
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XPAGnut
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by XPAGnut » Wed May 10, 2017 1:39 pm

I think it is good to express dis satisfaction with parts or service from whoever, and on boards like this and among ourselves. Sitting around smiling contentedly when another generic part arrives that is supposed to be a unique part, only encourages whoever to deliver more of the same. As for getting cars back on the road, why is it that nobody sells the critical wear item for the BC steering box, the "worm."? I know there have been some bad repros from various sources in the past, but has not that all been figured out by now? The worm can be found from some British sources, just seems odd that none of the US sources (fromtheframeup.com probably does have it) don;t bother to carry them while they do carry the VW conversion kits. hmmm.

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dirk w dondorp
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by dirk w dondorp » Wed May 10, 2017 10:19 pm

That they did not roll out the red carpet for someone who wanted to spent some money with them is no reason to call them a " crap" company- dissatisfied with their service- yes- rude no!!

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by Steve Simmons » Thu May 11, 2017 4:10 pm

I definitely report back when I get a sub-par item from any supplier. It's the only way they have to know that there's a problem.

I believe FTFU does stock replacement part for the BC box. It seems like these parts have been really hit and miss in recent years so you never know what you're getting.
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Marv
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by Marv » Thu May 11, 2017 6:07 pm

In all fairness, let's not forget Martin Cooke and Abingdon Spares, I purchased some of my bits from him for the BC box and had no issues with any of the items. Fairly priced and fast shipping.. Bob Grunau up in Canada had good quality worm gears plus other assorted bits as well. Easy to deal with and always helpful on advice.

If it were not for individuals like Doug Pelton, Bob Grunau, Roger Furneaux, Craig Seabrook, Martin Cooke et al.... plus companies like Moss Motors, our passion and love of hobby for the marks would surely be diminished to faded memories of what once was, instead of what it can be once again.

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by Steve Simmons » Fri May 12, 2017 12:11 pm

Bob G, Roger F, Butch T and others like them are the ones who supply a lot of the TA/B/C parts to Moss Motors, Doug Pelton and other resellers! It's guys like that who are the real lifeblood of the hobby, manufacturing high quality parts in small quantities for the retailers.
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SteveW
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by SteveW » Sat May 13, 2017 6:14 am

It seems to me that the problem with the 'resellers' is that they have multiple suppliers, some good and some bad, so the quality of the product is quite variable. In general, I try to go to the actual manufacturer where I can. That way, I deal with the people who have good reputations and cutting out the middle man means its lower cost as well. For example, the big companies in the UK charge a fortune to refurbish dampers. Fortunately, the person that most of them seem to sub-contract the work to only lives 40 minutes down the road from me, so I went direct. One of the great benefits of this forum is that we share who the good manufactures are.

What some companies don't seem to get is that, in a small community like ours, good customer service is the route to making a profit as word soon spreads. Reputations are easily damaged and difficult to restore (like our cars!).

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by Steve Simmons » Sat May 13, 2017 12:07 pm

Also, when manufacturing small quantities, the supplier sometimes changes the design or quality without notice to the vendor, so without their knowledge they are selling parts not up to their specified quality or fit.
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timandgerda
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by timandgerda » Sun May 14, 2017 3:51 am

Gents – after much venting of spleens I would like to get back to the matter in hand if that is ok with everyone. My original problems were two fold, namely collapsed lower bearing in the steering box and no recess for an oil seal where the sector shaft exits the box. My approach was as follows: failing to find a caged bearing at reasonable price I measured an individual ball bearing and found it to be ¼ inch. 25 delivered from Sheffield for £2.19 including postage! I should point out that all bearing races were in good order and the upper bearing was undamaged. As for the no bush recess my approach was as follows: Turn a shaft to ¾ inch as a dummy for the sector shaft and reduce the end to 15mm for about 1 inch. Loan a 1 inch rotabroach and remove the 6mm pilot bar. Put an M6 bolt in this position so the broach can be fitted to an electric drill and turn out material suitable for a modern oil seal (centre of broach is 15mm). Such a seal is available from ‘Simply Bearings UK’ delivered for £1.86 I like to do as much as possible myself hence not going to a machine shop and this repair, modification whatever you call it proved to be very simple. Not sure why my steering box has no recess for a seal however after much research it appears that several versions were supplied and some only used a felt washer (these were more common on Triumph cars it seems). Anyway that was my approach but one other question. What is the score when replacing the felt at the top of the steering outer tube – do you soak in oil or leave dry – sorry if a simple question but I have never done this before? I will try to put a few pictures with this post however if it fails I will get younger members of the family to sort it later as I am a bit of a dinosaur it IT. Cheers. Tim.
Attachments
Lower bearings replaced
Lower bearings replaced
Tooling for cutting recess
Tooling for cutting recess
Recess machined ready for new seal
Recess machined ready for new seal

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frenchblatter
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by frenchblatter » Sun May 14, 2017 11:03 am

I was taught to soak the top felt bush in oil overnight.
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timandgerda
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Re: Steering box rebuild

Post by timandgerda » Sun May 14, 2017 11:18 am

Thanks Norman - thought that might be the case. I've seen graphite grease as used on the springs mentioned somewhere. Have you heard of this?

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