Steering box rebuild

[timandgerda]

Afternoon everyone. Does anyone know the correct bearing part number for those found in the steering box? Moss part number is 060371 and MG Bits have it as S108A but neither has them in stock. I am UK based and would prefer to go straight to a bearing manufacturer if possible as listed price is quite high even if they had them. Additionally does anyone know how the 'new' type seal fits adjacent to the drop arm - there is no recess for it - I remember this being talked about some time ago but an update from anyone who has installed it would be appreciated. Cheers. Tim.

[tcremesal]

Tim : Just did mine 3 months ago . New type seal goes in from the bottom. I replaced bearings and chases with Moss parts . I had to call and chat to verify.

[Duncan M]

AS also sells the bicycle crank or headset type bearings. They appear to be in stock. Triumph TR2 and TR3 steering boxes used the 60371 bearing, also. Seal is (National) 240735 if your box has not been modified for a different arrangement where it seals. Sometimes the original sector shaft (rocker arm) can get badly pitted on its shaft, where it needs to seal, and various alterations take place. Looks like the 240735 seal is to fit in a 1.00 inch dia. bore and seal a .75" dia shaft? Actual seal dimensions are 1.01" x .74" and about .155" tall. If that looks right for what you have, you might want to buy two seals, as they are easy to damage while installing them. One side of (National brand) seal will be marked "fluid side" (along with part number, etc) in tiny raised writing. Other side has no writing.

[timandgerda]

Sorry for my ignorance but I don't know who AS is? (I bought my TC as 16 boxes of parts so didn't have the luxury of stripping it down and so the rebuild is a bit of a challenge!). My steering box has no recess on the outer to accept a seal, it is totally flat where the shaft emerges and there was just a felt disc behind the drop arm - is this not normal? I have been looking at bicycle crank bearings but most are for 9 balls and the correct number is 10 - don't know the ball bearing size yet as not had time to measure it. Any idea about ID and OD for the bearing as this may make a search easier?

[Marv]

AS is Abingdon Spares in Deep River CT. 800-255-0251 Martin Cooke (martin@abingdonspares.com)

also, contact Doug Pelton , From the Frame Up. Mesa, AZ (doug@fromtheframeup.com)

I have just finished my steering box o'haul last fall and can help with pictures and info, I purchased my bearings and seals through Moss at the time. I'll be back home the first of the month if you want to make direct contact then. The box has not yet been installed in the car. I do have two extra box bodies and a Tomkins type friction reducing cover if you might be interested.
Marv TC 5141

[frenchblatter]

Normally NTG (MGbits) will get any parts not in staock fairly quickly. Talk to LInda, mention my name and she'll move mountains.... real service from this company.

[timandgerda]

Thanks Marv. I have a Tomkins kit ready to fit but will give you a shout when you are back. I looked at the FTFU site and they list the bearings but carriage to the UK is very high. I am back in work tomorrow so plan to measure the ball bearing size at the same time as crack testing the drop arm (all in my lunch break of course!) If I have no luck with obtaining a caged set I will buy separate ball bearings and install as many as will fit - I know a lot of competition cyclists do this with crank bearings and I don't see any problem other than the fiddly nature of the job. My thoughts are that the end float on the assembly is the source of a lot of steering problems and if I get this right, in addition to the Tomkins set-up I should be ok. I have refurbished the track rod ends already and have reamed out the front springs and fitted phosphor bronze bushes in an attempt to take as much play out as possible.

Hi Norman - good to hear from you again. I will try NTG as you suggest although their site lists the bearings as out of stock. I find Carl at Moss very helpful as well. I see we will be neighbours again soon - I live just of J30 on the M1.

Cheers

Tim

[frenchblatter]

Tim, I agree about Carl, great chap, pity he works for such a crap company.

Talk to Linda. Although I'm suprised you need new bearings as they don't usually wear that much.

We'll be ensconsed in Royston by Friday 30th June. Probably be working on the garage (sod the house) all weekend than I want to get out and meet all my new friends.

[timandgerda]

Thanks Norman - for info the bearings aren't worn, when I removed the end cover I found the cage broken up. One of the ball bearings was also missing so I guess at some time in the past it has been reinstalled in a pretty poor state. The rest of the components look to be in very good condition but I am still a bit confused about where the seal will fit - there is no recess and very little space for one but I will order one and work it out when I get it.

[frenchblatter]

The seal is tiny and goes where the felt was. It'll become clear when you rebuild it.

[dirk w dondorp]

Crap company??
They helped me a lot in the 35 years that I have messed about with MG TC & TD ! Not many others were around in those early days!!
Nobody is perfect!

[frenchblatter]

Dirk, they didn't help me at all. And the stuff I bought from them was terrible. In particular trhe D shaped rear lights are £98 plus 20% VAT and aren't worth £5. Cheap and nasty.

I don't mind paying top price for a top product but top price for cheap rubbish makes me very angry.

[stephen stierman]

Some years ago when I restored TC2911 I spent thousands with Moss and found them very helpful. If I had a problem with an item they were always willing to take care of it. I often used a local fellow who was a Moss dealer and provided a nice discount on their items. Unfortunately he passed on and when I had an item that had some peeling chrome that came from him, i went directly to Moss and they replaced it.
We are lucky to have several suppliers that provide parts for vehicles of limited production that are now 70 years old.

[dirk w dondorp]

Yes, there were times, quite a while ago, where Moss was the only company that did offer compentent help and service for those working on their MG T's And...they had a splendid cataloque, which was a big help when restoring!
This may not be the case anymore today as more suppliers are on the market but in those early days they helped the T owner a tremendous lot and I am gratefull for that. True, it was not for free, but everything has a price in life!

[Steve Simmons]

Most reproduction parts are manufactured by Moss. Without them, most parts suppliers would have to close their doors since the majority of the parts they sell have Moss stickers. It would be great if someone stepped up to the plate and made even higher quality bits, but I don't see that happening. You'd end up with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of very expensive parts that no one would be willing to pay a fair price for.

[XPAGnut]

On the other hand, if Moss had never existed, the inventory of hoarded original parts would have found their way onto cars, and only consumables like brake pads, bearings, spokes and engine parts would still need to be available. I once restored a basket PB almost entirely buying through different MG club members and their hoarded parts. Gosh was that PB nice when I was finished, with the only new (repro) parts being mechanical drivetrain necessities and fresh chrome and paint.

[Steve Simmons]

I'm not convinced of that. There are a lot of parts that either aren't available, or that are so old that you wouldn't want to use them. For example, you wouldn't use an old rusted master cylinder and NOS no longer exists. With a finite number of parts available, reproductions are a necessary evil. The only exception I can think of is small chrome parts. It's so difficult and expensive to get quality chroming done now, that people often just buy a reproduction bracket or wing nut instead of spending five times as much repairing and re-plating the old pitted one. the restored original would be better, but the cost is often prohibitive for most people.

[XPAGnut]

But Steve, a quick browse on ebay revealed a NOS MC for under $35. A fellow would have to have or know or learn a few soldering skills and find just the right bean can to solder on to make a convincing final product. Why bother learning something useful when you can just go to the nearest T-Type parts catalog and throw a few hundred dollars at it and have one that is sorta right? Come to think of it how long you suppose it would take a machinist to turn out a bunch of these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MGTC-Brake- ... BD&vxp=mtr

Nothing wrong with replacing a few wingnuts, etc that have been lost. Certainly nothing wrong with replacing a rusted beyond hope brake component. Problem is when people use the often poorly reproduced parts to entirely rebuild their car, which is then referred to as "all original." Seems to be a pervasive sentiment amongst MG owners these days that rather than seek out and insist on proper repop new parts, they simply criticize anybody who notes the deficiencies of the catalog parts as some sort of OP (originality police) nazi. There is a big difference between OP and someone pointing out the cheap (inferior copy) nature of a new part. Also a big difference between a OP nazi and someone pointing out how an over restored car is just that, or how something about it looks like it belongs on a Ferrari and not a MG. Of the two just mentioned, most people consider the problem with many t-types is over-restoration.

No offense to anyone intended, we work with what's available. It is what it is.

[Steve Simmons]

I agree, there is a definite over-use of the OP term, often it seems by people trying to validate their own decisions. But to each their own and all that. As far as "all original", yeah if a car is build from 30% reproduction parts then it should not be represented that way. I guess some people have a different mindset of what original is, whether it mean original parts or original configuration.

I searched eBay for the MC you mentioned but found nothing. Used multiple terms, both current and completed items, etc. If it truly was NOS and wasn't rusty inside then it's a rare piece for sure and you'll probably never see another one. But your example of the new cylinder above is just what I mean. Parts like that aren't available anymore so we have to make new ones. Without people making and stocking them, we'd be in deep trouble. Small machine shops willing to make a single piece are getting more rare every day, and many of the ones remaining are getting expensive. I think most people would rather buy a new, perfectly functional master cylinder than have to unsolder, de-rust, bore and sleeve, re-plate and re-solder their old one. I'm definitely a proponent of rebuilding original parts but even I have my limits! On the rare occasion that I decide to replace an original part with a repro, I always keep the original as a reference for future replacements to ensure it's within spec.

[frenchblatter]

I wanted to keep mine LOOKING original. I'm aware no renovated car can be original as the original parts have rusted away.

My "problem" with Moss was they refused to pass on any discount after I'd used one of their agents and spent £4000 with them but for reasons that aren't relevant didn't want to use the agent anymore. Then, when I went to fit the parts I found they were really cheap and nasty and in many cases wrong. For example the ali rocker cover has the breather pipe on the wrong side. When I queried this I was told the one with the hole for the air cleaner was no longer available. No it wasn't, they were out of stock. The other suppliers have the correct item. However the final straw was when I fitted their new rear D lamps. They are the most shoddily made lamps I've ever seen. The PCB that has the bulb holders on is rivited to the body of the lamp with two tiny ali rivets. They are far too small to take any pressure and the PCB comes away as you push the bullet connectors to the bulb holders. I suppose I could accept this if they wre £20 but at £118 .....

I started to use NTG. They are very friendly and helpful, the parts are of a far higher quality and they gave 10% discount without me asking as they realised I would be spending a lot.

I'm fully aware my car is no longer "original" but I did the best I could and used all the correct sized nuts, bolts and screws and saved as much as was economical to save. For example the rusted headlamps would have cost over a £1000 to be remade (and then they still wouldn't have been "original") so I bought a repro set for £650 a pair.

I do appreciate that Moss started the parts supply for our cars which has meant many have been saved. But I think, in the UK at least, that profit has taken over as the overriding aim and customer satisfaction is nowhere to be seen. I've been in business for many years and supply car dealers with thier computer systems. We are the best priced in our market sector (the top systems) and we will do anything to assist our customers. For example a prospective client asked how support worked and how long after being given the support ticket number the problem would be resolved. We had to expalin that if he rang our support team his problem would be dealt with there and then. It's called customer service and it wins us a lot of business. I wonder if Doug Pelton and the others would have built good business if Moss had given good service.

OK, rant over. thanks for listening to a really grumpy old man