TC identification

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Rickwilson
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TC identification

Post by Rickwilson » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:16 pm

I am new to the T series community. I've done some reading but am confused. I recently bought a TC. It is titled as a 1949. It is TC1130 XPJMI17239 From what I've read I thought TC1130 is a 1946 number. And what about the engine number? I thought TC's had XPAG's in them. Can someone enlighten me?

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Marv
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Re: TC identification

Post by Marv » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:27 pm

TC1130.jpg
TC1130.jpg (36.81 KiB) Viewed 5232 times
Rick: TC1130 comes back as being born on July 18th, 1946 and had engine # XPAG1790. Your XPJM engine came out of a Morris 10 car. (XPJM engines - 1140cc , Morris 10/4 , OHV engine 10HP)

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Duncan M
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Re: TC identification

Post by Duncan M » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:59 pm

TC10130 would be a 1949. XPJM and XPAW was a common inexpensive replacement for an XPAG. XPJM is nearly identical from the outside, while the XPAW has the oil dipstick on the wrong side, along with a sump pan that is quite different. A stock XPJM only has 36hp, while a stock XPAG has 54hp. Is your JPJM supercharged yet?

Rickwilson
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Re: TC identification

Post by Rickwilson » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:44 pm

Thanks for the info Guys. The engine is not supercharged.
I'm still wondering how it got titled as a 1949.

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TC9800
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Re: TC identification

Post by TC9800 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:06 am

The XPAW is a quite desirable replacement, the 1140cc XPJM not so much.

Tom Wilson
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Re: TC identification

Post by Tom Wilson » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:47 am

Hi Rick -
What's the chassis number stamped near the front left dumbiron? It's on the outside edge of the chassis immediately behind the dumbiron (what the spring attaches to). Sometimes hard to read as it gets filled in with paint. I attached a photo of the number from TC0273 (before its first restoration).
This stamping is the defining answer to your chassis number.

Other identification numbers on your car - you probably already know this stuff:

The Makers Plate - on the left (passenger) side of the tool/battery box on the bulkhead lists the chassis number and original engine number. The chassis number should match what is stamped on the front dumbiron.

The Body Plate - located on the left side in the passenger footwell, nailed to the body timber. If your tub (body) is original, the number will match the tub number stamped onto the top of the main left tub rail (underneath the floor, identify as Moss Motors 450-520 in their drawing). The body numbers are not recorded anywhere as an identifying number for TCs - or any T series for that matter.

The Engine Number - original engine had a brass plate on the left side of the rear engine flywheel housing area riveted in place with the number stamped on it. Later TC engines also had this number stamped into the cast metal under the plate; on earlier TCs the last two digits of this number were stamped into the top edge of the rear core plug housing. This number would originally have matched the engine number on the Makers Plate.

In the best of all worlds your chassis number will match what is listed on your title.

And . . . please send a note to the MG Car Club T Register to let them know your TC now resides with you. They try to keep track of all the MG T cars in existence, and have much to offer. http://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/registers/

Tom Wilson
Zionsville, Indiana USA
TC0273, TC0279, TC2070
and a shop full of 11 MMMs.
Attachments
TC0273 chassis number.jpg

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Duncan M
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Re: TC identification

Post by Duncan M » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:20 am

State titles on cars can have all sorts of odd things on them, from years long before VIN #'s. 1949 may have been put down as year first sold/registered in that particular State, for instance. Could be that State liked to go by engine number for ID, and when the original engine was replaced --it was 1949? Or, "kit cars" could be titled as pretty much anything you desired in some States back when.

Aside from stamped numbers, there are several other ways to date the era of production of the bodywork on a TC.
For instance, the shape of front "wing tips" (the front part of fenders that hangs down forwardmost) are distinctly different between an early and late production car.

What date is stamped on your voltage regulator, distributor body, dynamo?

Rickwilson
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Re: TC identification

Post by Rickwilson » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:46 am

the number on the chassis (frame rail) is 1130 . which is also the number on the title. although the title lists it as a 1949.
As for the dates on voltage regulator, distributor body, & dynamo, I don't they would pinpoint the cars correct year, being that it has a replacement engine and those parts are not likely original to the car. But I will check them as it will be interesting to know what they are. I did not even know they would have dates on them. Will let you know what I find out.
my engine is a XPJMI I can't find any info on it could it be somehow different from a XPJM?

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Marv
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Re: TC identification

Post by Marv » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:39 pm

You're correct Rich, the car is a 1946 as per my earlier post. Since the engine has been replaced and most probably a number of other ancillary components, it is of little importance as to what their build dates are. They are of importance to those who insist on originality but little else with the age of our cars. The XPJMI engine you have may be a "crate engine". One that was never shipped with a car build but supplied to replace a blown engine that was damaged beyond repair. A '53 TD I owned had a Goldseal crate engine in it that turned out to be an XPEG 1500cc unit. An engine found on the late '54 and '55 TF cars. The previous owner on your car probably just took whatever was available for a number of reasons when he put the XPJM engine in TC1130. It could have been a salvaged engine or a new crate unit and based on price, time an/or availability, that is what he chose to use. As Duncan noted, the XPJM would not be an overly desirable engine to put in the TC as it had significantly less HP. I couldn't find any info on XPJMI engine designations either. At any rate, you now know the true birth of your car and now have to decide if you keep the Morris 10 engine or try and find a XPAG unit. They come up on eBay from time to time and there was a complete TC engine recently that the owner was pretty proud of based on the asking price. I have a XPAG out of a '53 TD but off the top of my head, I don't know if it would mate up to the TC transmission plus the TD has a different front bearer plate that would have to be swapped out for a TC unit. Your XPJMI engine probably has the correct bearer plate installed from the original XPAG unit. Best of luck........

Rickwilson
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Re: TC identification

Post by Rickwilson » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:13 pm

Thanks to Marv, Tom, & Duncan for your responses. Your knowledge of TC's has been of great help to me. Marv, IF that TD XPAG will mate to the TC transmission I could be interested.

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Marv
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Re: TC identification

Post by Marv » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:32 pm

PM sent...

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Duncan M
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Re: TC identification

Post by Duncan M » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:06 pm

I did not say that dates on ancillary components were anything but dates on ancillary components, actually. I am interested in knowing all about originality because I am interested in spotting fakery, Marv.

Not unusual at all for an ancient British car to have the original dated (rebuilt) dynamo case and distributor. Most any car with under 80,000 miles might well have the original Lucas voltage regulator, too.

A bit more to authenticity in a TC than having a dumb iron stamp that matches an ID plate. TC owners are & have always been notorious OP (originality police), and anyone that thinks otherwise is drinking the catalog store sales kool aide. Cheers-

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stephen stierman
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Re: TC identification

Post by stephen stierman » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:19 am

Ah, if these cars could only talk and tell us of their lineage. TC2911 still has its original number plate and an MOT sticker on the windshield and a slightly later Ohio inspection sticker tells me about when it came to the U.S. I know a couple of the previous owners, but of course know nothing of its history in the U.K. Wouldn't it be fun to know who, where, and what it had managed to survive through. I would really like to meet the individual who applied inch thick bondo, roof flashing, and pine timbers to "restore" the body tub. Were pop rivets really original to a TC?
We are all just caretakers anyway and I guess do the best we can with what we have at the time.

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Marv
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Re: TC identification

Post by Marv » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:40 am

Sorry you apparently mistook my words on ancillary equipment dates the wrong way Duncan! Be assured that nothing was intended in any way. However, I prefer my Old Speckled Hen over Kool Aide and steadfastly subscribe to OP (Owners Preference) over (Originality Police) any day.

Cheers.... :)

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Duncan M
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Re: TC identification

Post by Duncan M » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:20 am

Not sure where you trying to go here Marv. What did I take the wrong way? Stephen above gives some examples of how a car can tell a story. Rick's car has a story to tell. Maybe even an interesting story, but focusing only on whether or not the ID plate and dumb iron can be made to match is to discount that story. Obliterating a car's past history is easy enough, if that is the owner's preference. Should you call Stephen "originality police" for keeping those old stickers, etc on his car? I would call his choice to keep the stickers, etc his owner preference.
Last edited by Duncan M on Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Marv
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Re: TC identification

Post by Marv » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:51 am

Not trying "go" anywhere Duncan, Sorry..... my mistake!!!

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stephen stierman
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Re: TC identification

Post by stephen stierman » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:28 pm

Boys, Boys, be nice! When you take an old car down to the bare frame to restore it, you pretty much destroy any originality that it had, but honestly TC2911 had very little to save in the first place. The matching number plate and MOT tag were just a little provenance that I wanted to remain with the car for that reason.

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Steve Simmons
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Re: TC identification

Post by Steve Simmons » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:40 pm

I'm not sure how it became so black and white, whether or not a person wants to keep a car original or modify it. Any time originality comes up, so does the "originality police" stuff. Seems to me there is an infinite amount of "in between", which is where I fall. What I want is period correctness. Why? Because that's why I own old cars - for the history and being a part of another time whenever I slip behind the wheel. If I want modern conveniences and a lack of maintenance, I'll buy a new car. None of my cars are completely original, nor even stock. But you wouldn't know it by looking at or listening to them.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
http://www.mgnuts.com

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Duncan M
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Re: TC identification

Post by Duncan M » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:02 pm

I guess I missed something where Rick said his TC with the XPJM had been frame off restored, with all new components fitted. I would have guessed it to be a sort of barn find.

Clifford Jay Lockrow
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Re: TC identification

Post by Clifford Jay Lockrow » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:06 am

The TC gearbox should bolt right up to the TD block. I have a spare TD block and have used it from time to time. The engine in the car now is a TF 1500 xpeg block and the gearbox also bolts right up. Yes you have to pull timing gears and change the front bearer plate on either TD or TF1500 block.
I have a good friend that just purchased two derelict TDs and both have xpag TD engines. If any interest get in touch.

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