Fan to water pump spacer

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Mark Strang
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Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Mark Strang » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:09 pm

I'm working on the engine auxiliary parts for TC 7801. I've installed a new water pump and pulley. I"m at the point where I need to install the fan. On my TD's there is a spacer slug about 1 1/2 inches thick that attaches to the pump and onto which the fan blades are attached. After reviewing various photos of TC's, I've noticed that some have these spacers and some don't. Is this spacer needed? Is there enough room to install this piece and still have clearance for the radiator? Without this piece, will the fan clear the hoses and piping? Was this piece used only for the TD's to accommodate a different location of the engine relative to the radiator on the TD? I suppose I can figure it out once I have all of the parts in place but it'll be easier to set it up correctly now rather than scraping my knuckles after all things are in place. I don't have the engine in the car yet nor do I have the radiator in place at this time. I'm curious as to the proper assembly and why the two cars have apparently different setups.

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Marv
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Marv » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:50 pm

My TC 5141 does not have the spacer block. Both of my TD's did have it however. My spare XPAG engine out of a '53 TD has it also.

Marv

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Steve Simmons » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:15 am

As far as I know, TC never used the spacer. The engine mounts are different so perhaps the TD engine sits farther from the radiator.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
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Mark Strang
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Mark Strang » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:01 pm

Okay, I guess that I'll just wait until I get everything in place without the spacer and see how things fit up and deal with it at that time.

Michael Ponsano
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Michael Ponsano » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:03 am

I am assembling TC 9864 from a basket case and I found the spacer in the many boxes of parts. It cannot fit and still clear the radiator. Without it, everything lines up nicely. ????? on why its in the boxes of parts!

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Marv
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Marv » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:23 am

Is the engine number matching to the car or possibly an XPAG from a later car?
Last edited by Marv on Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Steve Simmons » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:07 am

Assuming the engine is from a TC, someone probably bought a used water pump that came from a TD. Or perhaps thought they needed a spacer but then found out otherwise.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
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lindi
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by lindi » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:46 am

Hi Marc,

our TC did not have a spacer, too. When I installed the supercharger, it was obvious that there was not enough clearing to let the additional belt pass. So I had to use a spacer, which I made on my lathe. There was enough space in front of the ventilator so that the radiator is left undamaged. Therfore, if it is not possible with spacer, leave it away.

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Lindi

Mark Strang
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Mark Strang » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:00 pm

TC7801 came in pieces without the spacer. Based on past work on my TD's i figured it should have one so I grabbed a spare that I had and have it ready in case I need it. It looks as if I won't need it after all based on the above comments. I'll just wait and see. If I need it, I'll have it. If not, it'll just go back in the spare parts bin. Thanks for the insight. Mark

Mark Strang
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Mark Strang » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:19 pm

Okay, here's the latest on the spacer. I finally got the engine installed in the chassis. I'm installing various pieces onto it such as the starter etc. I don't have the radiator installed yet. I installed the fan without the spacer as it seems as if this is the proper way to do it. With the blades facing the correct direction, the fan hits the thermostat housing. If I switch the blades, in other words, reverse them, the fan clears the housing by about 1/8 inch. Now, I believe I have the proper water outlet (62 degrees) so I think I'm good there. Any ideas? I'll try to get the radiator in place tomorrow to see how much room I have between it and the fan. In any event, the fan won't clear the thermostat housing with the blades in the proper direction based on what I've read about not needing the spacer.

Mark Strang
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Mark Strang » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:31 pm

Change the housing to 72 degrees, not 62 degrees. i typed in the housing angle for the TD's instead. Mark

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Marv
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Marv » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:29 pm

Mark, Post a couple of pictures for us to see please!

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Steve Simmons » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:50 pm

Measure the actual angle of the elbow. There have been some reported in the past that were in between TC and TD. Also some aluminum ones from Moss about a decade ago that weren't machined properly so that even though the angle of the elbow was correct, it sat crooked on the head.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
http://www.mgnuts.com

Mark Strang
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Mark Strang » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:11 pm

I don't know how to do photos on this site. The angle of the elbow is 72 degrees. I measured it with protractor. I'm stumped. It is an aluminum outlet which I'm not too excited about based on galvanic action but it is relatively new and I'll probably never get enough miles or years on the car to worry about it. I guess i could order a new outlet to compare. If there is no difference I could install it if it is steel or return it. That might be the best check right now.

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Marv
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Post by Marv » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:42 pm

Mark: Are you confident the new pump is identical to the old one? I know some pumps will interchange on mounting holes on other MG engines, Not sure on the TC but a short snout pump could be an issue possibly.
Last edited by Marv on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Steve Simmons » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:30 pm

If the pump had a shorter snout then the pulleys wouldn't line up either. I always assumed the fans were symmetrical, so that if you installed them backwards they would fit the same (although the blades would not blow as much air). Perhaps they aren't. Have you tried a different set of blades by chance? Perhaps yours are bent toward the engine. I'll pull some spare blades and a pump out when I get the chance and measure.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
http://www.mgnuts.com

Mark Strang
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Mark Strang » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:26 am

I have four old sets of blades from various TD's and they are all the same. I've tried different sets with no change in clearance. The pulleys line up just fine right now and a shorter outlet would cause problems in alignment. There has got to be a simple solution but obviously I'm missing something.

Mark Strang
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Mark Strang » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:14 am

Problem solved. I ordered a new water outlet from Doug P at The frame Up. It was about 3/8 inch shorter than what was on the car. After installation the fan blades cleared the thermostat housing and the top radiator hose lined up properly. Apparently someone in the past had replaced the original water outlet with a TD model which didn't allow the fan blades to clear so the they just reversed the blades. On to the next challenge. Thanks for all of the input.

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bloodysalmon
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by bloodysalmon » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:21 am

Hi, I have 3 TC's under restoration, 2 with engines. One flange has a spacer the other doesnt but both are TC engines. But ... the one with a spacer is only 1/2"-3/4" thick and not 1 1/2" ... so perhaps this is another type that was available? Problem is the small length bolts nor the long TD bolts work for this either. :eek:
Chris Blood
TC1472,TC2686,TC4245,D-type D0407

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Steve Simmons
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Re: Fan to water pump spacer

Post by Steve Simmons » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:45 am

I suspect that was a previous owner's attempt to get the fan closer to the radiator, possibly for use with a shroud. Or maybe an alternate fan. In any case, it wouldn't be an original part for a TC.
1949 TC8975 / XPAG 9609
1949 TC9849 EXU / XPAG 10507
http://www.mgnuts.com

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