Hello everyone. I need to establish if the front of the rear wing should terminate adjacent to the lowest extremity of the body frame or should it meet the bottom of the wheel arch (higher up)?
(If the wing aligns with the body it takes the "spine" up into the aperture - which is wrong - but if the front end of the wing meets the lowest point of the wheel arch (slightly higher) the spine ends where it should but then the running board needs to be raised and there are then likely to be issues with the front wing line.!)
Rear wing alignment.
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bloodysalmon
- Posts: 230
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- Location: Nottinghamshire, UK
Re: Rear wing alignment.
this was always going to be the hardest decision to make on new body refit Ray. The answer really is ... 'depends'!
It depends on if you're happy with the side view of the front-wing, runners and then the rear wings fit? It all has to work together as each car will have its issues in fitting correctly too 'said' plans. If it looks right, it will be right!
One thing, try to ensure the bottom edge at the rear of the runner is level with the front edge of the rear-wing, so the take up looks level. Clearly you then have to make sure the spine on the rear wing doesn't get too exposed, but a little covering up of the spine is also ok as it goes under the rear arch way.
I've always found this fitting the most difficult one to do on your own ... you need a mates hands and commitment to put the 1st screw, undersized as we've said before so errors can be corrected.
Search and look at as many photos to see what others have done right ... or not so right!
It depends on if you're happy with the side view of the front-wing, runners and then the rear wings fit? It all has to work together as each car will have its issues in fitting correctly too 'said' plans. If it looks right, it will be right!
One thing, try to ensure the bottom edge at the rear of the runner is level with the front edge of the rear-wing, so the take up looks level. Clearly you then have to make sure the spine on the rear wing doesn't get too exposed, but a little covering up of the spine is also ok as it goes under the rear arch way.
I've always found this fitting the most difficult one to do on your own ... you need a mates hands and commitment to put the 1st screw, undersized as we've said before so errors can be corrected.
Search and look at as many photos to see what others have done right ... or not so right!
Chris Blood - TC2686& TC3615
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Thank you Chris. I was intrigued to read that some owners like Antijam have found the wheel arch to be bigger on a new body and have had to add metal to take up localised gaps. I can see how to add metal to the wing off the car but how one is supposed to add metal to a wood framed skin I don't know.?
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Ha ha! That reminds me of a visit we once had from a "Health and Safety" officer. She was stood watching while my mate loaded up his van with heavy boxes. She interrupted him and asked "...so what would you do if a box was too heavy?"
He replied ... " if it was too heavy for me then I'd get someone else to do it"!
Not the reply she wanted to hear!
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Mark McCombs
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:28 am
- Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Ray-
Going thru this myself currently, I have learned the following:
-The bottom of the front of the rear fender doesnt fit flush to the bottom of the tub; It sits above it anywhere from 3/8 to 3/4". I suspect this is a 'fudge factor' area designed in on the assembly line, as this is below the back of the running board and not readily seen (altho as noted, it should align with the bottom corner of the running board, hence the running board slotted mounting hole) and tied direct to my next two points:
-The rib of the rear fender should align with about the center of the side tub wood that it comes up to; It should fall just short of a flush fit at the rear tub corner (perhaps just enough room for the fending welting to curve around in front of it). This is probably why my first point above varies. This is also helped and defined by the gas tank bolt that goes thru the rear flat portion of the rear fenders.
-I am seeing 10.5" from the ground up to the tip of the rear fenders at the back of the car on both sides. Not sure if this is the desired dimension but both of mine are equal, and I used the existing inner fender mounting holes for the rear wings.
-The fit of the inside sheet metal of the rear fenders where in overlaps the inner fender wheel wells is a critical fit, in that if this overlap is too tight, it will prevent the rear wings from fitting tight up into the rear curving part of the tub. Gentle bending of the fender sheet metal will allow this clearance to be achieved and the rear wings to fit up inside, tight but not fighting each other.
Hope that helps-
Mark TC8126
Going thru this myself currently, I have learned the following:
-The bottom of the front of the rear fender doesnt fit flush to the bottom of the tub; It sits above it anywhere from 3/8 to 3/4". I suspect this is a 'fudge factor' area designed in on the assembly line, as this is below the back of the running board and not readily seen (altho as noted, it should align with the bottom corner of the running board, hence the running board slotted mounting hole) and tied direct to my next two points:
-The rib of the rear fender should align with about the center of the side tub wood that it comes up to; It should fall just short of a flush fit at the rear tub corner (perhaps just enough room for the fending welting to curve around in front of it). This is probably why my first point above varies. This is also helped and defined by the gas tank bolt that goes thru the rear flat portion of the rear fenders.
-I am seeing 10.5" from the ground up to the tip of the rear fenders at the back of the car on both sides. Not sure if this is the desired dimension but both of mine are equal, and I used the existing inner fender mounting holes for the rear wings.
-The fit of the inside sheet metal of the rear fenders where in overlaps the inner fender wheel wells is a critical fit, in that if this overlap is too tight, it will prevent the rear wings from fitting tight up into the rear curving part of the tub. Gentle bending of the fender sheet metal will allow this clearance to be achieved and the rear wings to fit up inside, tight but not fighting each other.
Hope that helps-
Mark TC8126
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Great reply, Mark. I have been going round in circles with this. To get the rear wing so that the spine goes up to the piping and not lift it up - which looks wrong - I need the front leading edge to align with the lowest point of the inner wing.... then there is an issue with it being too high for the running board . What I will have to do is temporarily fit the front wing and running board as a complete assembly as Chris Blood suggests and establish the best overall look.
Another problem I have is that the wings have been through the Wars and although not that rusty have been beaten about in the past. Unfortunately, they slope away from the body rather than exiting at 90 degrees and then curving away. I think this is something I will just have to live with as I can't afford new wings.
Another problem I have is that the wings have been through the Wars and although not that rusty have been beaten about in the past. Unfortunately, they slope away from the body rather than exiting at 90 degrees and then curving away. I think this is something I will just have to live with as I can't afford new wings.
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Mark McCombs
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:28 am
- Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Ray,
Another note is to measure how high the body angle iron sits above the bottom of the main rail, and transfer that line to the outside of the side panel....you will need to be low enough with the rear running board mounting bolt (that goes through the main rail) that you are lower than the inside body angle iron.
Another note is to measure how high the body angle iron sits above the bottom of the main rail, and transfer that line to the outside of the side panel....you will need to be low enough with the rear running board mounting bolt (that goes through the main rail) that you are lower than the inside body angle iron.
Re: Rear wing alignment.
I'd reiterate Chris' point that if it looks right, it will be right - and it will need a very sharp eye to detect any 'non-originality'.
My own build was made with a new tub, wings, running boards and tank so the result I achieved may be of little relevance to your own assembly.
I've mentioned before one crucial aspect is to avoid a 'kink' in the line where the running board meets the front wing. and in my case that meant deliberately positioning the rear of the running board lower than original. when offering up the rear wing I found, perhaps fortuitously, that with the bottom edge of the rear wing in line with the running board - as below....
....the point of the spine on the wing just touched the piping where it curved round the tub.....
This set up leaves the bottom front edge of the rear wing just over an inch below the base of the tub. With the use of any new panels the fit is always a matter of compromise. The trick when fitting all the wings and running board is to repeatedly step back and cast a critical eye over the assembly and ensure there's nothing in the lines that jars the senses. Having no existing holes to line up I had free reign to position the parts to achieve this. Finally whatever you do one one side make sure that the other matches - particularly make sure that the tips of the wings are at an equal height from the ground.
My own build was made with a new tub, wings, running boards and tank so the result I achieved may be of little relevance to your own assembly.
I've mentioned before one crucial aspect is to avoid a 'kink' in the line where the running board meets the front wing. and in my case that meant deliberately positioning the rear of the running board lower than original. when offering up the rear wing I found, perhaps fortuitously, that with the bottom edge of the rear wing in line with the running board - as below....
Re: Rear wing alignment.
The more I learn about what you guys have been through the more it looks like my wheel arches are bigger than standard. On my car, if I position the wing about an inch above the bottom of the frame the spine is still under the piping. This means if I align the front edge with the bottom of the frame the spine is even further under the corner.
I may end up adding metal to the end of the wing.
I may end up adding metal to the end of the wing.
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Mark McCombs
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:28 am
- Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Ray, is your gas tank in position so that you can start with the tank mounting bolt from the inside of the fender?
That is a good reference point to start the location process.
That is a good reference point to start the location process.
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Mark, I can't use my tank and have ordered a new one. While I am waiting for that I am attempting to get the rear wings to fit without the tank as a datum point... but in the distant past the wings have been crushed and beaten out again. The car may have been rolled while in competition in Australia. It was stripped down in 1960). One of the wings had a big tear where the mounting hole to the tank had been... so I have welded a plate over it. I will have to measure it against the other wing to determine where the hole needs to go. Even then they may not be in the right place. The problem is that until I get my new tank I won't know for sure if the mounting points are in exactly the right place. Until I get the tank here I will be working from the front to the back.Mark McCombs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:53 pmRay, is your gas tank in position so that you can start with the tank mounting bolt from the inside of the fender?
That is a good reference point to start the location process.
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Mark McCombs
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:28 am
- Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Ray
Sorry, I remember that now. If it would help, I can measure the distance up from the floor and out from the backboard to triangulate the tank tapped hole position. Maybe you could make a cardboard template with the hole location to compare where the fender is sitting. Just let me know.
Sorry, I remember that now. If it would help, I can measure the distance up from the floor and out from the backboard to triangulate the tank tapped hole position. Maybe you could make a cardboard template with the hole location to compare where the fender is sitting. Just let me know.
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Thanks Mark. My tank will be a while yet.
Unfortunately, I have come across another problem. Before starting reassembly I checked the chassis was straight and all the measurements checked out O.K. but I now see there is a disparity right at the back with one chassis rail sitting 1/8" above the other. There is evidence that the chassis has been bent and straightened in the past but what I didn't notice was that the tank was packed on one side to bring it level. I don't suppose it will affect handling but it won't help getting things to look right.
Unfortunately, I have come across another problem. Before starting reassembly I checked the chassis was straight and all the measurements checked out O.K. but I now see there is a disparity right at the back with one chassis rail sitting 1/8" above the other. There is evidence that the chassis has been bent and straightened in the past but what I didn't notice was that the tank was packed on one side to bring it level. I don't suppose it will affect handling but it won't help getting things to look right.
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Hi Ray,
This is one of the most difficult aspects of the build to get right. This is where I eventually got to with mine. I decided that the critical point was the level of the rear tips with respect to the chassis and the line where they meet the body tub. How high the front of the wing is up from the bottom of the tub is a secondary consideration in my opinion. The other thing that I struggled with was judging exactly how much the outer edge should be inboard/outboard from the centre line of the chassis. I made the screw holes in the wing a little over sized so that I had some adjustment when loosely nipped up. Once I was happy I filled with a spot of weld to get back to the correct size. I was trying to make them both look right with respect to the width of the running boards then I eventually noticed that the bracket on one of the running boards was off set (i.e. when on the tub the running boards were differed widths), so it was that that I needed to change. Also, I noticed that I didn't have a matching pair of wings so I had to cut and weld one of them to reprofile to match the other. After many days of work and frustration I'm now happy with the result. I'm only in Giltbrook, so if you want to come over and have a look, let me know.
This is one of the most difficult aspects of the build to get right. This is where I eventually got to with mine. I decided that the critical point was the level of the rear tips with respect to the chassis and the line where they meet the body tub. How high the front of the wing is up from the bottom of the tub is a secondary consideration in my opinion. The other thing that I struggled with was judging exactly how much the outer edge should be inboard/outboard from the centre line of the chassis. I made the screw holes in the wing a little over sized so that I had some adjustment when loosely nipped up. Once I was happy I filled with a spot of weld to get back to the correct size. I was trying to make them both look right with respect to the width of the running boards then I eventually noticed that the bracket on one of the running boards was off set (i.e. when on the tub the running boards were differed widths), so it was that that I needed to change. Also, I noticed that I didn't have a matching pair of wings so I had to cut and weld one of them to reprofile to match the other. After many days of work and frustration I'm now happy with the result. I'm only in Giltbrook, so if you want to come over and have a look, let me know.
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Mark McCombs
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:28 am
- Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Rear wing alignment.
Wow, that looks great, Steve.
Took a few hours fussing until I realized how critical the overlap is between the fender and the inner wheel well, in that if its too tight of a fit, you can't really see it but you sure notice the fender is not nesting against the tub as it should.
I remember foolishly thinking when the tub was finally done that 'the fenders just bolt on like a VW beetle'....
Took a few hours fussing until I realized how critical the overlap is between the fender and the inner wheel well, in that if its too tight of a fit, you can't really see it but you sure notice the fender is not nesting against the tub as it should.
I remember foolishly thinking when the tub was finally done that 'the fenders just bolt on like a VW beetle'....
Re: Rear wing alignment.
I found I could just get my finger tips under the edge of the wing and was able to pull it down a bit. That helped get the gap down quite a bit but there is still work to be done ...and the back edge of the Wing is now wavy! 
Steve I have sent you an email.
Steve I have sent you an email.